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15 Citizens Petition to Secede from the United States
Note: At this time we are awaiting more information on the matter. We will be updating the article with any new findings.
By Avalon
intellihub.com
November 11, 2012
The news that 15 States have filed petitions to secede from the United States is not exactly accurate.
Yes, 15 petitions to secede have been filed, but not by the individual states in an official capacity as Sovereign States – such as an Act by their respective legislatures.
These petitions to secede have been created by individuals who have taken the action many have been contemplating for some time.
Some states have passed various Acts that warn the Federal Government not to take any further action in certain areas, but to my knowledge, no State of the United States has officially declared or requested to secede from the United States – yet.
In the Texas Petition to Secede, there are 5,453 signatures, leaving 19,547 left to make the 25,000 signature requirement to have the petition considered. Reading the Texas Petition is not too surprising…
The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government’s neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc.
Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it’s citizens’ standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.
Created: Nov 09, 2012
On the WHITE House site, there is an introduction to the Petition Process (reproduced here) and video presentation titled WE the PEOPLE – Your Voice In Our Government.
Introduction
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
-The First Amendment, United States Constitution
The right to petition your government is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. We the People provides a new way to petition the Obama Administration to take action on a range of important issues facing our country.
We created We the People because we want to hear from you. If a petition gets enough support, White House staff will review it, ensure it’s sent to the appropriate policy experts, and issue an official response.
HERE’S HOW IT WORKS:
“The idea of petitioning the White House or the government isn’t new, but this online platform is. Since the White House has never featured anything like this, we expect to make some adjustments to improve the platform based on how people use the system and your feedback.
We may change the signature threshold so that the workload for responding to petitions in a timely fashion is manageable. You can always view the current signature thresholds on the Terms of Participation page.
Peacefully grant the State of Alabama to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government. (1,394 signatures)
Peacefully grant the State of Alabama to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.
As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive.”
Created: Nov 09, 2012
Peacefully grant the State of North Carolina to withdraw from the United States and create its own NEW government (1,341 signatures)
As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government…”
Created: Nov 09, 2012
Peacefully grant the State of Florida to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government. (1,224 signatures)
We the people of the great state of Florida, do see that in today’s world the Federal Government has not led our citizens justly and with honor. We therefore as free men and women of our great state do believe that it is time to take matter upon ourselves to ensure our continued freedom, and to enact our own laws and here buy govern ourselves without the federal government’s involvement in our internal matters from this day forward.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin: 1775
Created: Nov 10, 2012
Peacefully grant the State of Kentucky to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government. (972 signatures)
As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government…”
Created: Nov 10, 2012
Peacefully grant the State of georgia to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government. (1,023 signatures)
just like in 1860 the south secede from the union. 2012 the state of georgia would like to withdraw from the USA
Created: Nov 10, 2012
Peacefully grant the State of Mississippi to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government (985 signatures)
As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government…”
Created: Nov 09, 2012
Peacefully grant the State of Indiana to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government. (959 signatures)
As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government…”
Created: Nov 10, 2012
The above is a sampling of the actual petitions to secede that are posted at the White House site for Petitions.
Officially, this site is https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions
If you have knowledge of Official Sovereign States Petitioning the United States or Legislation that Declares Independence, please add the link in the comment section
It might be of interest that many news sources are running this story…
Here are a few links
Americans in 15 states issue White House petitions asking permission to secede
If at first you don’t succeed, just secede!
More than 8,000 Louisiana residents have signed an online petition to the Obama administration to allow the state of Louisana to, “withdraw peacefully from the United States of America and create its own new government.”
15 States including Texas have filed a petition to secede from the United States
Texas files petition to secede from United States
November 11, 2012
By: Sheila Carroll
15 states start petitions to secede from the US
Submitted by Ian56 on Sun, 11/11/2012 – 12:37
Citizens in 15 states file petitions to secede from United States
November 11, 2012
By: Joe Newby
Petitions to Withdraw from the union (To start off Texas, Louisiana and Missouri)
Petitions to Withdraw from the union (To start off Texas, Louisiana …
planet.infowars.com/…/petitions-to-withdraw-from-the-union-to-start…
23 hours ago – https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/ …
Peacefully grant the State of Missouri to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government. Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:12
Residents of several US States start petitions to secede
By: a guest on Nov 10th, 2012
Texas citizens petition White House to peacefully withdraw from US…
7:58p, yesterday
WANTED: OUT OF COMRADE OBAMA’s USSA
Part of channel(s): Liveleakers (promoted)
And so it begins…And not damn soon enough!! sign the pititions ASAP..Talk to your Government officials in your State and demand they gets things started
Louisiana petitions to leave the Union
« on: November 10, 2012, 02:36:09 PM »
My analysis of the Petitions to Secede from the United States is that this is possibly coming from a small group of people who are using distinct email addresses, but are essentially a small group of ‘Citizens’ IP’s.
The reason being that the dates appear to be within the last 48 hours and the signatures are from many different ‘states’ indicating a re-use of a small number of accounts for this ambitious project.
Also, the signatures seem to correspond to the number of times it would take to log in and log out and repeat the process without making it look too obvious it was a campaign being orchestrated by a small group of people trying to make it look spontaneous.
What is your opinion of this amazing story regardless of whether it is genuine or a sophisticated operation by a small group of people.
Regardless of whether it is a Psy-Op or not, it would be more productive if these ‘Citizens’ petitioned their respective state legislatures as it would not only be more effective, but could start the process in a real way and have revolutionary consequences if supported. In the final analysis our Constitution states it clearly:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
UPDATE 11-11-2012 at 17:05 pm EST:
As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government…”
Created: Nov 07, 2012
*****
Avalon is an investigative journalist and writer for intellihub.com.
128 Responses to 15 Citizens Petition to Secede from the United States
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I’m watching this one too. Top entry on my LJ and I’m Tweeting each petition (@benjammindeth).
My personal opinion is that the people doing this are whiners and crybabies. More than half the united states voted Obama in, and their issue isn’t the economy, it’s the black man got voted in for the second time. You look at all of the states in question, all of them except for florida, who I might add *was* taken by Obama, even if by a slim margin, are notorious for their racist leanings.
Think about it.
Think about this Di Kelly, obama has run TRILLION dollar deficits every single year he has been in office. Obama left Christopher Stevens and three other Americans to die at the hands of an Islamic extremist group while he WATCHED and did NOTHING. Obama ran guns into Mexico hoping that they would be used to kill American citizens in an attempt to nullify the second amendment. Under obama more than 47 MILLION Americans are on food stamps. I can tell that you are not that intelligent, parroting the tired pathetic line that we are “whiners and crybabies.” People like you are PERFECT for the current state of this country; not very intelligent, emotionally based approach to EVERYTHING. Think about this, obama won EVERY STATE where voter ID was NOT enforced. Romney won EVERY STATE where voter ID WAS enforced. Hmmmm coincidence?
Hmm… not only coincidence… but false. Apparently, you are PERFECT for the right-wing extremists… Lowly intelligence, gullible, and way too lazy to actually research anything before you decide to spout your unsupported opinions about it… Oops, I mean “spout the unsupported opinion you have been told to have”.
You have no idea what you’re talking about you dumb, dumb person.
You seem to forget that Bush took us from the Clinton surplus and put us in the largest debt this nation has ever seen. The ruinous economic pit Bush gave us didn’t magically go away nor did the two wars. Obama has had to deal with the Bush tax cuts and the Bush wars and he’s been trying to turn it around. He has made progress, but any complaint you make about the economy is still the ruinous disaster given to us by Bush. End of story.
Obama didn’t run guns into Mexico. That’s just stupid and I feel sorry that your level of ignorance is so high that you honestly think that happened.
Your comment about laws on voter fraud are so psychotic there is no reply I can even give.
People like you are what’s wrong with America.
WAKE UP AND FACE THE TRUTH!
Agree with Jeff
Di Kelly has not given any thought worth reading
Nor has Jeff or Larry…
Seriously?!?! I think you need to learn how to find out a few FACTS for yourself and not just swallow what FOX NEWS is feeding you. Do you take cream and sugar with your bowl of B.S.?
You think about it. Your the one bringing up race. Who the hell said anything about race?
Don’t be so damn sure, this president is as crooked as corkscrew.
Hmm… slanderous, unfounded opinion stated as fact… Just saying…
Maybe you should re-read your own posts, idiot.
I have… I have not made any slanderous statements… I have voiced opinions, and stated facts… I try not to let the two get confused for each other…. MORON
Black??? You obviously lack the ability to differentiate between the various shades of black merged with white. Are you capable of watching the sky, just watch the GRAYNESS of the clouds as like the gray of various minds.
Careful there… You are starting to sound like a commie pinko liberal with all of that considerate,intelligent thought…
Do you believe in the Declaration of Independence?? Perhaps you should read it first, then send a reply on what you consider it as. May I also suggest you read the original first ten amendments of the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America. But then, you may be in need of a Contitutional Scholar such as Big King B. O. to interpret what is not written in-between the lines for you. The Federal Reserve buys Congress and the Senate off to bury it, The Clintons Completely ignore it, Bush considered it a scrap of paper, King B. O. believes it to be in err and intentionally mis-interprets it and the general public obeys in blind tolerance as like one with a compromised mind. So, where do you stand??
DiKelly, The request for seccession has absolutely nothing to do about whining nor complaining! Instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with citizens of this country growing sick and tired of its government (present administration specifically) thumbing its nose at our Constitution! This current president has done far more than any before him to expand government far beyond anything our founding fathers could have ever anticipated. I could not possibly list them all, but i implore you to read our Constitution and then do some research into policies, programs, executive orders, etc implemented by mr. o, and you might have some semblance to what i am referring.
I agree with your perspective. And we have a system in place that allows for us to change our representation as a whole to improve common conditions. What we are talking about is much more akin to mutiny. And I for one believe that it should be treated as such. I fought to defend the freedom of my fellow Americans. If these people don’t want to be part of that, then I am fine with it… But they need to go find a land of their own, ’cause I sure as heck won’t let them take ours.
Rose, if you are so “sick and tired of this government” then feel free to take the next boat out of here. You voted these morons into office, or elected to keep them there. And if you whining people would stop saying “they came here for a better life” while the illegal immigrants are running amok and racking up unpaid medical bills for you and I to pay for them, then perhaps our government needs to get bigger. You ever stop to think that you bleeding heart idiots are the reason this country is in the poor shape it’s in?? Why don’t you look up what would happen if a bunch of us American’s were to illegally enter a foreign country and see what would happen to us. We just let them keep coming and keep coming because “they just want the American dream” but if they truly did, they WOULD DO IT LEGALLY and not keep expecting us to pay their medical bills and foot the bill for their ILLEGAL BRATS to go to school here. As for Obamacare, try looking up socialized medicine in Canada and the UK. THAT is free medical. Here we still pay for our own insurance, but the freeloaders can’t force us to pay their bills anymore.
I get sick of every time someone bashes Obama based on his proven track record there’s always someone who has to jump in and use the same ‘ol tiring accusations that he’s only being bashed because he’s black and not based on the facts that they don’t even bother to educate themselves on. Some sympathizer is always pulling the race card without even bothering to research the accusations for themselves. For once, to keep yourself from exposing your ignorant reverse bigotry, educate yourself with facts and argue those for once. Hating a hater makes you what?
Does loving your own and wanting to put your own people ahead before you worry about someone else’s mean you are a racist? Not in my book. if you have children which kids are you going to worry about feeding first, yours or someone else’s?
So if someone doesn’t like Obama or the direction the nation is taking that automatically makes them a racist crybaby in your eyes?
What about all those people who only voted for Obama because he looks like them? Are they racist?
There was MASSIVE election fraud – which is besides the point because the masses are so dumbed down and distracted they don’t know what the hell they’re doing anyways.
Because some people have the guts to stand up, file a petition like this and try to draw attention to the dire situation that is facing our country you think they’re racists…Amazing.
You know, you almost sounded intelligent… right up to the point you made unfounded and false claims about election fraud. Thank you for clearing up that little misunderstanding of your intelligence…
Right. Because it’s not like there’s anything wrong with the machines or anything; people reporting they saw their votes switch on the machine and whatnot, and that’s just one variable in this corrupt scheme.
Anyone who believes the elections in this country are legitimate are ignorant people who don’t know how to do research.
Hmm… well, people have said the same thing many times over… That is why we have diagnostic hardware and software to ensure the machines are not tampered with… (we learned from the 2004 incident with Diebold). If there where incidents that were confirmed, that would be a different matter… Without that, it is just what I said it was… false claims… Speaking of research just who has come forward to say this is the case? There have been accusations, but *gasp* when asked to swear a statement that would be held up in court, no one has been willing to go that far. If it were true SOMEONE would have the conviction to do so.
The news stations here showed someone choosing Romney as president, but the machine highlighted Obama every time. Those machines are definitely unreliable.
Didn’t Obama work for “Acorn”, the company that was accused of voter fraud during the Bush-Obama election. So here we have a guy that knows the ins and outs of voter fraud and he won a second time. Your turn to say that I am a liar and a cry baby.
He worked for them about as much as I worked for the Republican party… I wrote some software that they used… I guess we much be pretty closely aligned… I wonder why I wasn’t considered for the presidential bid… I probably would have had a better shot…
Think about what an under-educated moron you are.
I hope they succeed. Good riddance! Most of these states are in the South anyway, and are a financial burden to the rest of the country.
OK first of all i am so sick of idiots like you claiming its about color. grow up I hate Obama not because he is black but he has failed and now he is given a second chance to fail again. and just to be clear I would have voted for Herman Cain who was a black man because I thought he would be a better president. stop using the race card when you don’t know what you are talking about.
First of all you have no idea about how election works to say that more then half America voted for Obama is not correct Obama may have gotten the Electoral College and a little help from voter fraud but Romney won the popular vote which means more then half America voted for him it just didn’t count.
Get your facts straight before you start talking about the rest of us I hope your happy Obama the one you voted for is now raising taxes on everyone and btw there has only been 2 presidents in history that have had successful 2nd terms what makes you think Obama will be the 3rd after all hes there what incentive does he have now what does he care about his approval rating now
So, if granted permission, will they reimburse the mean old federal govt for all the aid and infrastructure they have received from said Federal govt? Does Texas and Fla expect to KEEP those federally funded NASA sites and properties? Will Fla expect the Fed govt to help them rebuild their state after the next few hurricanes? NATIONAL guard to rescue them when they need help after the disasters? Kentucky? Nuff said.
I think this just shows that there is not and has not been a single bit of national pride in the Right, it’s all been GOP pride and wallowing in the POWER they enjoyed while in office. Sad , sad story that they have so little actual patriotism that they choose FIRST to abandon even the illusion of trying to help America succeed TOGETHER.
Oh please did you ever consider that all the aid and infrastructure that the Federal government provides COMES FROM WE THE PEOPLE? Of course not! You think that the Federal government is some magical entity that magically can provide everything by pulling it out of a hat. Everything the government has comes from the people. The people can provide EVERYTHING THEY NEED WITHOUT THE LEVIATHAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Look at how TERRIBLY the Federal Government handled Hurricane Katrina and now Hurricane Sandy. The Right is the ONLY side that has any semblance of National Pride. American does not want to succeed together, HALF of American wants a FREE RIDE of entitlements on the back of the OTHER HALF.
Wow, and I had almost gotten over my fear of dentists… But I guess at least some of them actually are the small-minded, sadistic, pathetic little creeps that are portrayed in “Little Shop of Horrors”… Thanks for that…
elkwa33… where do you think that funding comes from, the air? All these entities are taxpayer funded; none of them would exist were the American public not paying for them.
And Jeff, if you’re so pissed off that ‘half of America’ is piggybacking off of the honest, hard work of the other half (LOL), here’s a thought for you: You can stop funding it by not paying your taxes. Quit your whining. You don’t like it, DO something. I get tired of all these whiners whining about how they think they’re supporting all the ‘do-nothings’ in America. If you don’t like it, either DO something or shut the hell up, the lot of you.
I believe they paid for them through the Taxes. They also paid for all of the people to sit on their asses and smoke pot while every body else goes to work and pays taxes. You can keep all the pot smoking couch potatoes with mr. obama. We will keep the hard working Americans that built this Country.
Actually, THIS hard working American will tell you shove off… And from what I have seen through my business affiliations, MOST of the hard-working, productive Americans I know would agree.
Texas has the 15th largest economy in the world. They would do quite well without a Liberal Federal government sucking at them like a leech.
Wow… from an earlier comment, you should probably take your own advice, and maybe educate yourself on what would actually happen if Texas lost its federal ties…
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/11/15-states-including-texas-have-filed-a-petition-to-secede-from-the-united-states-2494002.html
Petitions by states to secede, as of 12:46 am, Sunday, 11/11/12:
Louisiana, 7,358;
Texas, 3,771;
Florida, 636;
Georgia, 475;
Alabama, 834;
North Carolina,792;
Kentucky, 467;
Mississippi, 475;
Indiana, 449;
North Dakota, 162;
Montana, 440;
Colorado, 324;
Oregon, 328;
New Jersey, 301;
New York, 169.
ca.17,000 = FEMA red list
i want to sign the pitition. i believe the obama admin will destroy the united states
Go for it… The links are there… I would be glad to see the scum removed from our society. We have enough enemies over seas, we certainly don’t need more within the borders…
Why do some people think that Obama would destroy the world? Some of US think that if Romney wouldve gotten in he would’ve destroyed the world…Who in they right mind takes away Financial Aid for kids who need help for school, insurance for the elderly, taking away fema??? At least Obama is for all of us and not some some of us…, but God has the last say so in everything
Will Obama use NDAA To Arrest State Representatives and State Militias that support Secession?
Could Obama use NDAA To Arrest Secessionists on the Premise members are Militants and Belligerents that pose a threat to National Security?
Recently the Obama administration stated to Federal Judge Katherine Forest that under (NDAA) The National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 the President had authorization to lock up belligerents indefinitely. That they (were justified) to lock belligerents up indefinitely—because cases involving belligerents directly-aligned with militants against the good of America—warrants such punishment.) Pres. Obama could use NDAA provisions to order U.S. Military Forces to round up without evidence, millions of Americans including Secessionists and Militias by alleging they are belligerents or a threat to National Security. Many observers believe Obama intends to extend NDAA to imprison U.S. Citizens in Indefinite Detention not involved with or associated with enemy forces.
Hitler included similar provisions in his fascist (Discriminatory Decrees signed February 28, 1933). Almost immediately after the German Parliament passed Hitler’s laws, the Reich Government ordered the arrest of German Citizens and confiscated their guns without probable cause or evidence; delegated powers to German Police and other authorities to arrest anyone Nazi authorities claimed attempted or incited public unrest: arrested among others were outspoken Germans, writers, journalists, peaceful protestors and artists. After World War II the East German Secret Police (Stasi) used the threat of Indefinite Detention to forcibly recruit thousands of informants.
The U.S. 2012 NDAA legislation Obama signed 12-31-11 is similar to Hitler’s 1933 fascist laws the SS and Gestapo used to target persons in Germany for arrest, imprisonment and execution without probable cause; and confiscate millions of dollars of property. Hitler used his laws to suspend Parliament and the Supreme Court insuring his laws could not be rescinded.
During the Obama Administration’s recent request for a (stay) to stop U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest blocking enforcement of vague NDAA provisions, the Obama Administration—never clarified what constitutes a (belligerent); or militant; or what belligerent activities (directly aligned with a militant) to order a belligerent’s arrest or indefinite detention; or what is against the good of America. Under vague provisions of NDAA, the President could accuse anyone of being (directly aligned with militants by way of any political or other association; activity, statement, writing or communication with an individual or group government deemed (militant) to arrest and indefinitely detain Americans. Writers, journalists, Americans that disagree with or question U.S. Government or its allies—may under NDAA be subject to arrest and indefinite detention.
NDAA 2012, like Hitler’s 1933 Discriminatory Decrees enforces censorship; refers to the Patriot Act e.g. warrant-less searches of private property and forfeiture of property from persons not charged with crime. Provisions in NDAA 2012 keep the door open for corrupt U.S. police; government agents and provocateurs which there are many, to falsify reports and statements to target any American, group or organization for arrest, indefinite detention, complete disappearance; civil asset forfeiture of their property.
You may have noted NDAA referred to the USA Patriot Act. The Patriot Act lends itself to Government / police corruption; the Federal Government may use secret witnesses and informants to cause arrests and civil asset forfeiture of Americans’ property. Witness(s) and informants may be paid up to 50% of assets forfeited. Federal Government under 18USC may use a mere preponderance of civil evidence, little more than hearsay to Civilly Forfeit Private Property. Under the Patriot Act innocent property owners may be barred by government knowing the evidence federal government uses to forfeit their property.
Sections of NDAA 2012 are so broad, it appears U.S. Government or the President could (retroactively) deem an American’s past 1st Amendment activities prior to passage of 2012 NDAA—supported hostilities, terrorism or (Belligerents) to order the arrest and Indefinite Detention of any U.S. Citizen, writer, group or organization.
Under NDAA 2012 it should be expected that indefinitely detained U.S. Citizens not involved in terrorism or hostile activities, not given Miranda Warnings when interrogated, not allowed legal counsel or habeas corpus may be prosecuted for non-terrorist (ordinary crimes) because of their (alleged admissions) while held in Indefinite Detention.
Isn’t it interesting that this bill was created by right-wingers. Forced through the house by right-wingers. And ultimately, right wingers used the threat of fiscally bringing the government to its knees to ensure that it got passed… And now they are upset and scare by it. I believe that this clause should be repealed… But there is this twisted, evil, little, ironic thought that gives me pleasure in thinking what it would be like if it was actually used against them.
The question is this: Do Americans have the obligation to obey unconstitutional laws and precedents or a duty not to?
Wow… an actual interesting and intelligent question phrased in a way that does not appear to be intentionally caustic (I admit a lot of mine have been lately). The answer is clearly: Yes and Yes… We have an obligation to obey (the big guys with guns have a way of enforcing that obligation), but we also have a duty to challenge unconstitutional laws, that is the way unconstitutional laws get overturned. It is our responsibility as Americans (right up there with voting and serving).
Thomas:
Some provisions of the NDAA are clearly unconstitutional and built upon other unconstitutional legislation. As a veteran you took an oath to uphold the constitution and defend it:
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.” (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
“I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.” (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
(Accessed 12 Nov, 2012 @ http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html)
I assume that the oath you took was the newer one, 5 May 1962 if you were an officer. In that oath is states that you will “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I (you) will bear true faith and allegiance to the same”. This newer version also states that you will “obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice”.
According to the oath you took you have a rather confusing conundrum before you. We have an obviously un-American chief executive, probably even an ineligible person, in the White House acting completely outside the constraints of the Constitution (along with a Congress and a Supreme Court doing the same). This chief executive has created a government bureaucracy rivaled in size only by the Soviet of the old USSR that is creating “policy” on the executive level without any congressional oversight; “policy”, I might add, that is extra un-Constitutional.
So how can you have allegiance to the American Constitution, which you took an oath to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic; and the President of the United States, who took essentially the same oath, yet is openly not only not defending it, but doing all he can do to dissolve it? Now, I ask you again: Do Americans have the obligation to obey unconstitutional laws and precedents or a duty not to?
The answer remains the same. There is NOTHING that says that lawmakers have to make constitutionally sound laws… That is why there are provisions for the Supreme Court to overrule them. The president made clear that he did not support that provision, but was put into a situation where NOT signing it would have brought the government to a standstill. He knew that the unconstitutional clause could be overturned, and therefore had no mandate to prevent it. If you are so dead-set on assigning blame for this particular piece of legislature, target those that created it (though you probably won’t like who it is).
P.S. The ACLU, and Judges appointed by the Obama administration have said that it oversteps constitutional bounds. Obama knew that this would be overturned, so it was a means to reach an agreement that would otherwise have just cost the American people.
As a patriot, and as a veteran, I am disgusted. By all means, allow these people to secede… Just that, let them get their putrid, unpatriotic, worthless hides out of our country for good. And, good riddance.
Great, Mr Smith and then you can go to Washington because if you support this evil administration, that’s where you belong. You’re a veteran and you support a man that continues to undermine US security and leaves us open to terrorist attacks while he pals around with his buddies in Hollywood? Wow I’m so ashamed.
Good. Get the F out you disgusting piece of filth. You make false statements and say that you are ashamed. You SHOULD be ashamed. Ashamed of the wasted opportunities that your parents and this country gave you.
YOU WERE NOT IN THE MILITARY. What Marvin wrote to you is spot on.
Come see me… I’d love to prove that I was… Even though I have been out for more than 2 decades, and sitting behind a desk, I am sure I can kick your pansy butt… So, bring it, or shut it.
BTW Who the heck is Marvin?
Oops… my bad… Marvin is from a different thread… so many morons I had lost track…
Thomas Smith… is that your real name you old fart.
you must be the big drug dealer in town you big business man.
you are selling bullshit on this site. What your mama not hold you and your daddy ran off with your sister.
fart knocker!!! hahahahahahahahahaha. have a nice life mthr fckr!!!!
That is my name, and yes, I am a bit of an old fart… My parents are both still alive (and married for that matter), and lived through the actual depression… So I learned a lot from them… And at this point, you must be exceedingly happy that this is the internet, because if you made a comment like that without the anonymity of the internet, I’d be in jail, and you’d be in the hospital.
It is obvious about your patriotism(or lack thereof)… I am curious if anyone else that commented has served their country (other than myself, Skip, and Mort). I wonder if any of the rest of you had the balls to offer yourself up to protect the rest of America… It’s sad that this is the same thought that I have had every Veteran’s Day for 24 years.
Mr. Smith,
I encourage you to learn the real history of your country, not the phoney, watered down slop you were fed in grammar school. At the founding of the Nation, each state entered the Union voluntarily with the expectation that they could withdraw as they wished.
Unity at the point of a bayonet is what went on behind the Iron Curtain. I’m old enough to remember the U.S. government constantly telling us citizens how mean the Communists were for not letting Soviet satellite states secede and run their own affairs. Real patriotism isn’t blind obedience to, or support of, an unresponsive and distant bureaucracy. Were Ukranians, Latvians, and others “unpatriotic” because they wished to be free to run affairs more responsive to the needs of the citizens? I think not.
Your rant reminds me of the German-born Union General who lectured General Taylor at the end of the so-called Civil War. The German told General Taylor that Southerners would “speedily recognize our ignorance and errors, especially about slavery and the rights of States, and rejoice in the results of the war.” General Taylor apologized for his ignorance on the grounds that his grandfather, a commander in the American Revolutionary Army, and his father, former U.S. President Zachary Taylor, had found no time to transmit to him correct ideas of the duties of American citizenship and enlighten his understanding. Can things get more ironic than this?
If you would consider someone like General Taylor “putrid, unpatriotic”, and “worthless”, your identification as a “patriot” doesn’t meet my definition of the word by a long chalk.
Then maybe… just maybe you should education yourself on language, because if you don’t understand patriotic, I am POSITIVE you don’t understand moral, intelligent, or responsible… Get an education, then maybe I can consider your opinion without laughing.
Your putting alot of work into this thread Mr. Smith. You must need that overtime mon eye. The prick in the white chair is just obeying his orders so he will not get his dome cleaned. Same song no matter who the hell is sitting there. Been in the divide and conquer scheme forever…Looks as if they are doing well. Quit bitching at people over pointless shit and agree to disagree together.
I too am a veteran and consider myself a patriot but I see nothing but oppression and misery coming our way so I would support the seccession of my state (S.C.) from the union of giveaways, freebies and dependence as I am personally tired of seeing $30,000+ a year in FED taxes going to NOYAWK CD, DETOILET,chiCONGO and District of Coloreds to keep them in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.
You cannot be a patriot and support secession… By definition it is destructive to the UNITED States of America… Not the Affiliated states of America, not the Opposed States of America… You seem to miss that maybe I don’t agree with the direction we are going. Maybe I don’t agree with the choices we have made… But I am responsible to the people of the United States. They have made their will clear… If you want to go it alone, that is fine, but you can’t say that AND call yourself a patriot without looking like a fool.
Geez, racist much? The ‘colored’s’ just happen to be disproportionately disenfranchised in several areas of society, and this goes not too far back in America’s history. Do we forget the Jim Crow era of this country? With a history like that it’s not surprising that minorities (not just blacks) AND women still don’t have equal footing with, you guessed it, the wealthy white, disproportionately male segments of the population.
This country was built on the backs of poor immigrants and slaves. Deal with it.
I too love my country though not a veteran. Grew up between. But i also would like to secede but not from my country -from the criminals that have taken over our government. Every war every so called POLICE ACTION all these conflicts have been started by the super rich group that are poised to take over the worlds governments. It’s not some hair brained theory AMACO fueled Hitlers subs in Norwegen Fiords and they’re not the only American traitors they’ve had plenty of buddys over the years.
Washington DC is over flowing with those who have placed their own interest ahead of the welfare of the people/country and the Constitution. Worst of all they have,almost to a man broken their oath before GOD to up hold that Constitution.There is no way in the world that NOMEMBER OF CONGRESS-EITHER HOUSE-DOES NOT KNOW obama IS NOT QUALIFIED TO HOLD THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT. NOT ONE!!! Yet they do nothing but take and take. THIS IS WHAT I WISH TO SECEDE FROM. Then like some I am more fortunate since I dieing
Morgan:
Are there no more Tom Paines, Patrick Henrys, and no George Washington who gave his assets for the republic.
Albert, www
If you TRULY feel that way, then try to start a revolution. That appears to be your only course since apparently a larger portion of the population disagrees with you. The system may be damaged and imperfect, but it is our responsibility to help fix it, not destroy it. And there are many of us willing to defend the principles on which our country was founded…
Hehehe, those who actually fought in the Revolutionary War were the ‘Minority’ and they were out-numbered and out-gunned And as for the Majority, why do you think thay keep voting for their favorite ‘Label’(Democrat and Republican), when neither have kept their oath to the U.S. Constitution for many a decade.
Democrats and Republicans are heads of the same coin.
They are the puppets of the “Banksters who own our country and if you doubt this then you have your head stuck in the sand. Financially America has been broke for many years. The dollar is only worth one and a third pennies.
In 1900 an once of gold sold for $25 and today it sells for $1800 an it is still the same once of gold. (1800/25)=72 and 1/72=0.013 the math does not lie. Think about when you make a payment on your house $450.00, $5.85 goes for the house and $444.15 goes to the banksters. Actually when you sign for the loan the bank just monetized your signature, money out of thin air. Numbers on a computer screen.
America was once a grate country, it was created by grate men who warned us that if we allowed lawyers into our government they would destroy it, see the original “Articular 13 – Articular of Nobility”. You can Google this, and while you are at that check out the ACT of 1871 that changed us from a Republic to a Corporation. Then there is the confiscation of the peoples gold by Roosevelt, the declaration of bankruptcy and on and on. Our government has been destroying our country since day one, but back then we had honorable men looking out for us. To bad that is not the case today
You are not a patriot and very likely not a veteran either.
I can prove both… My discharge papers prove the second, and my commendations can prove the first. What proof do you have that you are either?
Okay now children. Quit calling each other names. Grow up and good citizens. There is no people protecting our country, our Constitution, our way of life. If you were to actually take the time to go see the movie 2016:Obama’s America you would have a better understanding of his agenda and where he wants to lead us. We thank you for your service to our country, but knowledge of the truth can not be covered up by bad mouthing everyone you do not agree with. An open mind, listening, and intelligent discussion serves everyone. There is a lot of information on the Internet, but not all of it is valid so you need to use some critical thinking and reasoning. It also helps to be able to verify any and all information gleaned.
Good luck
just because we want our states to secede does not make us unpatriotic. That is pretty closed minded. all our lives we have been taught fight for your rights and fight for what you believe in. the constitution was written to protect us from our own government which is the reason our government is trying to take it away from us piece by piece. we have way too much government and that is ruining the country I would like us to stand united together we are strong but unfortunately there is too much bureaucracy for that now we can not deal with another 4 years of this secession is our only way out of this not because we hate America but because we love it so much we want it out of the hands of the very people destroying it
RWolf:
Q1: Yes
Q2: yes
Albert, weary weeping watchman
A further reduction and transformation of America into deeper poverty and third world status as some States if seccession was to become a reality, would suffer heavily due to civil war with-in and around their borders, and all would have no chance in repelling foreign agression. Some of course would, ask for UN membership and ask for protection as the Lakota Nation and several other Native American Tribes/Nations would also ask the United Nations for recognition and protection further splintering portions of other States. If America as a whole cannot defend it’s self from the enemy with-in then, we are history.
It time that the American Militia rise, and remove the evil government and restore our country. The voting of 2012 was a big scam! Really the fact is that they the Illuminati can change the vote for the person they want into power, so matter what we do as American voter, the Illuminati always put the one into power. It time that we remove this power play, and restore of what is ours, OUR FREEDOM! Let stand together, as the American people, with our voice, and raise our guns in the air, and fight back our freedom and restore our liberty.
Just remember, there are more of us that stand on the other side, and for the large part, we are better trained and better supplied. We will not let you take the freedom of the American people as a casualty to your selfish attempt to “liberate” yourself from America… If you want your Liberty, simply leave. We won’t stop you. Heck, many of us will help you put your back to our fair country.
You are a fool. The vast majority of patriotic Americans know that a state has the right to succeed if it believes the Federal Government no longer has the country’s best interests in mind.
It is your kind that has driven America into the dirt, so man up and take responsibility for your failure instead of posturing that you are some kind of patriot.
If you want to change the meaning of Patriot to mean traitor, that is up to you. I will stick to the real meaning.
So, when these flailings fail, and you see that you really are the pathetic, self-important little brats that you are, what next? Will you have the balls to take up arms? Because I sure as heck would take up arms to defend my country… Go ahead and tell yourselves that you are “taking it back”, but the reality is that you are nothing more than an errant little cult trying to take a country that is not yours… It tried to be… It offered you the chance to succeed. It offered you a chance to work with your fellow man… Now you are trying to twist and manipulate it… I believe there are a whole slew of terms for that, but none that really describe the vileness of it.
The sheep want a shepard, unfortunate for them this shepard- Obama and his hordes, will lead them to slaughter, but apparently this is what they want, save yourself, the sheep will never listen but a few.
It is true, sheep will follow as they always have… That is how the Republican party has grown… I must admit that they tend their sheep well, protecting them from uncomfortable truths, reaffirming their beliefs regardless of how false they are, and providing moving leaders so they do not have to think for themselves… Even going so far as to buy a “News” outlet so they can pretend that there are facts to support them…
Spoken like a true Liberal sheep that is protected from REALITY by the soothing lies of his leash holders.
Spoken like a real Judas Goat… I think you know the difference, but choose to lead others to the slaughter… Tell you what, we can compare facts… But that would be like have a challenge of wits… you’re unarmed in either case.
As a Veteran I find this action reprehensible and actually dumb as hell…If you Secede the State will get no Federal aid of any kind…the state will have to pay the social security of it’s residents…they will have to pay for all infrastructure without the help of the Feds…When disaster hit which is just about everyday now they will have to pay for the clean up and destruction again without any Federal aid…same also with welfare and workman’s comp…They will receive no funds for Education or for research…no medical grants either…the only security the state will have is it’s own citizens for the National Guard receives Federal funds…The State will have to do away with the Postal System and develop there own…guess they’ll need there own stamps to along with their own money.will need to print Confederate money again…and the greenbacks they have won’t be worth anything…The State will have to maintain it’s own Hospitals…fire department and Police forces without Federal funds…and what about the tens of thousands of people in a State that don’t want to Secede???another Civil war??? With the weapons out there today it will be a blood bath…a thousand times worse then the 1st Civil War…does any of this make any sense??? talk about taxes…how high will they have to go up to pay for all of the above and more…electric grids…water plants and Damns…food inspectors…regulators…prisons and jails…the interstates and highways are Federal also… inspectors…regulators…prisons and jails…so many things the state will have to pay for which means the citizen will pay for it…all I can saw is you are all dumb as hell…all of this because a Black man won re-election…just hold out for 4 more years and he’ll be gone…better then a Civil war…only about 7-9% of the people make up our Armed Forces…15 States secede now how many are left…not enough to fight wars so where does that leave us…speaking Chinese…United we Stand…Divided we will truly Fall…
You are at least somewhat mistaken I believe… You seem to think that they have some intention of providing for the welfare of the citizens of the seceded states… All signs point away from this… Luckily (though thankfully luck has little to do with it), these people are actually getting to see that they are not the majority that they perceived themselves to be…
The economy of Texas is the 15th largest in the world. Let’s see your Liberal messiah fund his entitlement programs without it.
Actually, California previously had even a slighly larger economy than Texas, before it became a complete welfare State. Economies come and go, hehe.
Let’s see Texas survive without more than a third of it’s revenue (which comes from federal transfers)… Oh wait, that money is primarily used for education and infrastructure support… That sure isn’t needed…. http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/9_4_1.html
Not to mention, Texans aren’t that stupid… Ok, so there are plenty of stupid ones, but I know quite a few and even with them being kinda stupid, they are THAT stupid… Secession is stupid… It is good for no one.
I read a study that said Texas sends to Washington 360 Billion every year, but Texas on it’s own could pay it’s way on $275,000,000, that would save us 85 billion a year. This study claimed to cover all of today’s present social programs and military defense. Texas has the resources to to be able to survive on it’s own, but I believe that if Texas was to secede a number of neighboring states would join together, maybe even the whole of the southern part of America. But this is a very difficult solution to a very difficult problem.
Help add WV to this list
http://wh.gov/9GkE
The United states Constitution was written for the protection of the people from the potential abuse of power by a centralised federal government,thus the Second Amendment right to bear arms in self-defence against hostile federal forces.
The Second Amendment is the only guarantee that the United States Constitution as a whole can be upheld by the the citizens of the member states.
The lesson from history is clear:fascism can only be imposed if the people have no means of resisting the fire-power of an emergent totalitarian regime.One of the most crucial acts of parliament that the Nazis passed into law in Germany in 1938 was the Enablement Act that forbade private German citizens from possessing their own firearms .The consequence of the Enablement laws was to render the German citizenry powerless to defend themselves against an increasingly brutal regime that eventually imprisoned over 13 million captives with over half killed or dying of malnutrition.
If the the American people value their constitution they MUST defend the Second Amendment or else they will be at the mercy of the NDAA(2011) that grants dictatorial powers to the U.S.president in the eventuality of national disaster,economic turmoil, war or civil unrest.
Already FEMA have built internment camps that have a holding capacity for over 50 million citizens,where the press have no access to ensure that fundamental human rights are upheld and respected.
Wow… I didn’t know there was that much untruth all piled up together… For anyone that believes the interment camp comment, get in touch with me… I have this sweet bunch of beachfront property in Iowa, and this gorgeous Golden Gate Bridge for sale…
Mr. Smith, I doubt you are any of the things you claim. You sound more like an Obama zombie. No true patriot would speak the way you have. I suspect that you are in fact a weekend warrior; killing weeds in his garden with a Monsanto brand weed killer that slowly poisons the green world he holds so dear.
That being said, these people are exercising their Constitutional RIGHTS. The more of them that do so, the more likely it becomes that the Feds will be forced to listen to THE PEOPLE again. The bureaucrats, plutocrats, and corporatists MUST be ejected from the democratic process by any means necessary if we are to survive as a nation.
However, if they will not yield to us, then we shall simply secede and take our money and resources with us.
You can doubt all you want… That is what the internet seems to be about for some people (you know, the people that won’t even use their name).
And, as I said, I would love to see the back side of ye… get out of our country… As far as what you take with you… You can take what god gave you, and what you by yourself earned (which is nothing)…
In short… “Bring it”…
Hypocrisy is becoming of you since your username seem like an obvious fake.
All of that aside though; If my state decides to secede then I will gladly stay put and help build it up into a great place to live. We’ll be glad to send you supporters of the Communist in Chief to D.C to live with your anointed one in the Hovel house.
And no, I’m not going to “Bring it.”. such stupidity is the hallmark of the arrogant and the imbecilic; two of a kind really. Have fun paying for Obama’s wish list, Comrade.
Wow, someone that calls themselves “Void”, has the gall to say my name isn’t mine… Look around and see who wants to secede… you’ll find that that is not a society that is going to succeed… Though, it IS likely to just suck. And I will gladly (or at least grudgingly) pay for the programs brought forward by this administration… Just like I paid for the programs brought forward by the last five administrations… And, just like those, if it gets unbearable, and I don’t believe that I can change it by exercising my rights as an American, I will stop being an American… Because it is exactly the responsibility of making my government work for everybody that MAKE me an American…
You seem to completely misunderstand, MORON. The states are not succeeding FROM America, they are taking AMERICA WITH THEM AND LEAVING YOUR SOCIALIST SHIITHOLE TO WITHER AND DIE.
Whatever it takes for you to sleep at night… Speaking of sleep, g’night all.
If you agree, don’t just say it – SHOW IT! Repost this everywhere, not just on CL, but on FB, MS, and all other social networks.
Mr. President, Congress, State and Local level politicos- HEAR US!
We have whispered our wishes, not because we didn’t believe in them, but because we believed you cared about us more than the tantrum-throwing minorities and their un-patriotic helpers. We stood by, and patiently waited for you to act on initiatives and uphold existing laws that would have saved our jobs and created new ones. We begged and pleaded with you to support us in our time of need. We did not do these things because we are beholden to you but because you are beholden to US. We are your employer; not the illegal immigrant or the welfare leech.
You are our employees, and while you have found a nifty life-hack to keep yourselves in a job, we are STILL your employer and we can still fire you.
You have refused to hear us as your employer, you have insisted that we are inferior, and you have shamed us with your treachery.
No more.
We are angry now, leaders. Hear us, hear our rage. It is bristling and it shall be ugly. There will be blood spilled both from us and from you and your allies. The time of reckoning is fast approaching. Will you hear us and rein in your shameless shilling for power of your own accord and work, tirelessly, to put right what you have wronged; or will you continue as you have and ignore us? I hope that you will open your eyes and ears and hearts to reason.
Sadly, I think that there will be blood, lots and lots of blood.
A true patriot will die for liberty. I am a true patriot. Are you?
You are mistaken… I patriot is someone that defends the people… you are trying to defend your selfish narrow-minded believe. As far as ignoring you. You do no appear to be worthy of being heard… Much like the child throwing a temper tantrum, you are ignored, and we just do our best to help keep you from hurting yourself.
why don’t you do your best to make yourself understood. Or is ebonics your first language? The angrier you get the worse your English becomes. Oh, and I smell something coming off of your posts besides fail and food stamps. Is it the stench of Detroit or D.C.?
Wow… semi-articulate… Did your hillbilly town have a schoolhouse? ‘Cause you shoulda spent more time larnin’ about some philosophy too… As for my English… I adjust to make sure that I am understood the best possible… So, when talking to people that are collegiate, I ensure my liguistic skills stay high… When talking to ignorant people… Well, you are quite THAT dumb so as to not understand…
To divide and conquer is an age old concept of conquest and always extremely successful. The Elite Financiers always prefer it when obstacles/interference become too much for them. Thes petitions are about as transparent as the Illegal and Illegitimate Government that we have currently ruling over us.
I, and many others South of Chicago, wish Chicago would secede from Illinois. We would be much better off.
If Texas, or Kansas does go through with there’s, I would gladly relocate too.
Jesse, I definitely feel your pain… But unfortunately, it is our responsibility to live in peace with all Americans equally… Even the stupid ones…
What about those in the state who don’t want to secede . And does that mean that it will be on their ballot? I it’s only a small % of folks that want to secede does it matter.
I believe that this is exactly what these people are learning… That they are not as much of the population as they have told themselves that they are… The big question is what next when this fails?… How else are they going to try to damage our country?
I say let the country divide,the conservative states form a union and live under conservative, constitutional laws and let the liberals form their union and let’s see who survives. Liberal states will tax themselves to pay for all their out of control social programs and support the lazy. The few who do work will fork over 90% of their salary so the folks who don’t want to work can get their fair share lol.
I understand that is how you believe… far from fact, but your belief, and I can respect it. What I can not respect are people trying to leave and take assets from a society that they have benefited from, and act like it should be their right…
I don’t understand this small-minded, black and white perspective that some people have.
Some complain about having to pay taxes for those who ‘don’t work’, not giving one thought as to why the society is the way it is in the first place; the believe the whole system is corrupt and everyone on this assistance is simply taking advantage of the situation. How about raising the minimum wage so that people can work for a LIVING WAGE? What about that? Why doesn’t this society give more opportunity for the poor? What about more egalitarian policies? More equal distribution of certain resources? Oh, because that’s communist, right? And yet some of the most successful societies THRIVED under such conditions, like ancient Damascus.
But we don’t read about those in the history books, we read about the Greek and Roman empires who essentially were the driving force of their own undoing. The wealthy, elite classes preyed upon the need of the poorer segments of the population in order to increase their already ostentatious wealth. Part of the problem is we look to these failed societies as examples from which to model our own.
Those who do not LEARN from history, are doomed to repeat it.
History is a hard subject… Most people prefer to be told what happened and what they should think about it… Unfortunately, psychology is not quite as hard as history, and if you understand it well, you can be the one telling people what to think… Though, if you learned philosophy and ethics, you would know better not to…
Getting signatures for California too:
http://wh.gov/9wfE
I despise this administration and pretty much everything they stand for. What aspect of this country is better now than in 2008? I love this country and everything it stands for; however, the Obama Administration is destroying American values with virtually every decision it makes.
Is every one asleep? It is coming to a bad end,failure to study history as a living subject. Faling grades not to learn from past empires and their fall. Not understanding that a country like this is something you have to work at,not be lead around by an info bite on politico . com. In all my years and ill bet im older than most on here,I have watched with alarm each generation taking it all for granted and doing (nothing). This last election is another nail in the box. The pitty is,that we will leave to our Grands and Great Grands a hollowed out brain drained country. Well you all do the research I wont–thats the sign post up ahead (the twilight zone and you all are heading right for it and dont even know it–sad
Sir you are 100% correct. I to am in my waning years and find it incredible how our government has systematically destroyed our Constitution and our way of life. The defenders of our Constitution are afraid to admit that it is the actual government who is destroying us. They seem to be brained washed not to see the truth. This is akin to our educational system which has also been destroyed by our government and that has served them well to perpetuate their agenda. How do we overcome this situation? I do not know.
Sorry to inform you, the truth is, “You are Occupied…”
Too many of these comments are the equivalent of a chimp throwing his waste at visitors to the zoo. My advice for the grown-ups here is to avoid responding to fake tough guys who crave attention through name-calling and threats. The best reward for bad behavior here is silence. Never get in a whizzing contest with a skunk.
Potentially the only intelligent thing you have said.
I would like to subscribe to this site
So nice to hear that Pres Obama is so powerful. As many faults as this country has, there is no better place to live and raise a family as the United States of America. We like to visit elsewhere but we return home. I am glad I am part of the 99% (lower to middle class), the 67% (actual voters), 53% (taxpayers), etc, etc, etc. So many people have started businesses because of the fear of the unknown, as did our forefathers. So many have given their lives so that all of us who care to comment may do so. I will stay in the USA where I can continue to live in peace.
I think this is my favorite petition:
Peacefully grant the city of Austin Texas to withdraw from the state of Texas & remain part of the United States.
Austin Texas continues to suffer difficulties stemming from the lack of civil, religious, and political freedoms imposed upon the city by less liberally minded Texans. It is entirely feasible for Austin to operate as its own state, within the United States, in the event that Texas is successful in the current bid to secede. It is important for Austin to remain in the union as to do so would protect it’s citizens’ standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers.
We would also like to annex Dublin Texas, Lockhart Texas, & Shiner Texas.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-city-austin-texas-withdraw-state-texas-remain-part-united-states/TDD212hQ
Secession petitions are good PR but bad politics. There is a way for states to legally and politically secede from the American union but it must be a state-by-state process established by constitutional secession conventions in each state. Read: http://thedailybell.com/28286/Ron-Holland-Secession-Petitions-Good-PR-But-Bad-Politics
The state count is now up to 47! I have links to all of the petitions here:
stevemeadedesigns(dot)com/board/topic/155641-individuals-from-47-states-start-petitions-to-secede-from-the-us/
I would advise observers who are naming calling the secession petitioning of states as ‘racist’ to drop the tired adolescent name calling. Anyone who can balance a personal checkbook knows our nation is teetering on the edge of absolute fiscal catastrophe and that has nothing whatsoever to do with race. It does have everything to do with GOVERNANCE, or the lack thereof.
well said this is not about race at all and for those of you saying we are unpatriotic that also couldn’t be further from the truth. We do not want to split our united states up either. I still believe united were strong divided were week. However We can not continue under our current rule either with a government that wants to tax more Americans. we pay enough taxes it isn’t our fault that the government mismanages our money what gets me is they wont even admit fault. it is uncertain how things will turn out if we were to secede but it is a certainty of how things will turn out if Obama is allowed to continue his rule.